Real Stories of Young Cancer Survivors: Balancing School and Treatment

Welcome to Life on Pause, a podcast defining the experiences of being a young adult with cancer.

Each episode, we explore issues impacting young adults in and after treatment.

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Tonight we're going to talk about heading back to school with cancer.

For anyone who's comfortable, we'll start with introductions and where you were in school when you were diagnosed.

I'll kick it off.

So my name is Sammy.

I am 28.

I was 18 years old when I was diagnosed, so I'm about to hit my ten.

Yeah.

So I was diagnosed with thyroid cancer.

I had just hit college.

I was about six months into my first semester at Penn State, and I was actually diagnosed at my university health services building.

So that was pretty fun.

Thanks.

I always credit Penn State for that.

My name's Nathan.

I'm 21 now.

I was 13 when I was diagnosed with Ewing's sarcoma.

That was.

I just gotten out of 7th grade.

It was actually genuinely the first week of summer in 7th grade when I was diagnosed.

So I ended up missing all of 8th grade.

But I got back into school ready for high school.

My name is Corine.

I was 16 years old when I was diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma.

It was February of my junior year of high school.

So at that time, I was thinking about prom and thinking about what were my plans going to be going into college.

And it happened at a very, very busy time of my life when it.

Happened, did you disclose your diagnosis to teachers and classmates?

And if so, how did you tell them?

So, for me, I was supposed to go on a school field trip that Monday for biology club.

We always did, like, a big field trip.

The prior week, I had gone to the doctors because I thought, like, my shoulder hurts so bad.

And I literally got to the point where I couldn't put my book bag on it.

So that was on that Friday.

We had gone to, like, my PCP and then we went for blood work.

I got a chest x ray that night and they called and they were like, you can either go to Geisinger or you can go to Hershey tomorrow morning, but, like, you need to go.

So that was Saturday.

And I had to, like, my boy, my high school boyfriend, he was, like, very supportive and was there, and I had to, like, obviously call out of school on Monday because I was getting my lymph node biopsy and everyone was kind of like, they had thrown out the word cancer, but we weren't sure.

And then Wednesday, I remember doctor Barber had called me and was like, we need to set up a family meeting.

And I remember I just asked him, like, can you tell me if I have cancer?

And he was like, very quiet.

And he was like, you have Hodgkin's lymphoma.

And I had, of course, like, texted all of my close friends.

And by the time that I had walked into school in the morning, I feel like everyone knew.

So it wasn't.

I, by, like, no means was trying to hide it at all.

My doctor was also doctor Barb when I started.

Oh, he was the best miss I'm so gritty.

I was really upset when he had to leave.

I know I wanted him to stay.

I had been having headaches and that's what brought about going to the ER.

And I had been having headaches during the final weeks, like week and a half week, two weeks of 7th grade.

And so the people around me knew that I was having these headaches.

And my close friends, the one I can think of at least the one that I spent the most time with, was kind of seemed concerned, but it was like, it was all right until I had.

I went to the ER and the doctor said, oh, it's not anything, it's just a migraine.

And so you can medicine, treatment, whatever, you're never going to have a headache again.

But a week later when I'm back, they did a CAT scan and said, you're going to Hershey.

But that was during the summer.

And so I ended up just missing.

I didn't really tell anyone.

I didn't, like, text.

I might have texted a couple close friends about it, but, like, I think my mom probably did most of the talking to, like, the school and the summer camp being like, hey, my son's not going to be in camp.

He's dealing with this.

So I didn't really, I guess I really didn't tell very many people.

But I do remember when I got back, oh, during this, during the school year, like during my 8th grade school year, I did get a big stack of kind of like, get well cards, I guess my history professor, my history teacher for that year that I would have had like men, like said it to the class and they all made cards.

So, I mean, then those people knew.

But I didn't really ever, ever like, reach out and be like, hey, this happened.

Obviously, family finds out through, you know, mom talking on the phone, dad talking on the phone, but I never really specifically told a lot of people.

Just kind of happened.

Mine was kind of strange because when you're, I was in sort of a transitional period where my high school friends knew because I was much closer to them.

But I was fresh into college, so I barely had a friend group there.

I knew nobody going to college.

And so my fledgling friends in college, I just was getting to know them, and I was like, hey, by the way, I have cancer.

So it was sort of a crash course on, like, are you in it?

Are you friends with me?

Are you gonna stick it out?

And they did credit to them.

And as for, like, telling the, like, teachers, there was no, like, discussion between all of my teachers.

I had to, like, at the beginning of each semester, like, schedule a meeting with each of my professors and, like, sit down with them and be like, give them the talk and basically be like, hi, so I'm undergoing treatment.

I might miss classes.

I might be out sick.

I'm going to need you to have to understand.

Here is my, like, essentially pass from the university for this.

And it was always so awkward.

And all of these professors, like, 50 and 60 years old, just seeing their faces go immediately white.

Seeing this 18 year old girl come in and be like, why is she meeting with me?

It's the first week of class.

And then having her be like, by the way, the big C word.

So always super awkward having Beth talk with them.

What do you wish your teachers would have done differently?

Or what your teachers would have known.

One of the most?

I would say, like, every single teacher was so supportive.

Every single teacher was so understanding.

I think they all knew that, like, I technically didn't have to go to school.

I could have stayed home.

And I pushed myself because I didn't want to be the person, like, the cancer girl that's not at home.

And in between classes, I go to the bathroom, and I would throw up, or I would just be so drained in class that I would sleep, like, there, but I wasn't.

And I think they all knew that, but I still was there.

And specifically, my one english teacher misses dirk.

Like, she.

And I still have it.

I still have the box she gave me that said, hang in there with, like, a little beach scene that I would just, like, tactilely play with.

And she would make me brownies, and she would just, like, really take a second to check in and be like, hey, kid, like, what's going on?

And that I really, really appreciated.

And I don't think that there was a teacher that.

I think there were some teachers who I personally never had as a teacher, who didn't know how to react or say, like, they knew who I was.

But I never.

They were.

I was never their student.

So it wasn't as if they could say, like, hey, this is, you know, going on.

I don't know if there's anything I wish my teachers would do to different.

If anything, I wish that.

And I think this is just, like, a high school thing.

I think we very much live in a culture where, unfortunately, like, bullying and being unkind and the pressure to fit in.

Like, I understand it's been around forever, but I don't think that my fellow peers as a whole truly understood the gravity of my situation and what I was going through and how much that impacted me and, like, the things that I was experiencing.

And I wish that there may have been just, like, an open conversation.

Like, I'm not saying there needed to be an assembly or anything like that, but just, like, a heads up that's like, hey, listen, so and so is coming back to class, and this is what they're going through, or these are things that we should consider.

And I understand, like, I was only one student in a.

In a sea of other peers, but I think that sometimes it was just really hard to be able to relate to just being in high school, you know?

Yeah, I don't think.

I agree.

I don't.

I mean, for the most part, I think all my teachers did, you know, they didn't do a bad job, right?

Like, there wasn't anything that I had a professor do that didn't.

Well, now that I think about it, I did get called out one time as someone who had been in a.

Like, I can't even remember what the context was, but she was.

The teacher asked me, like, to speak on how I felt about some situation that I guess I had some saying because I had had cancer and had been through that trauma.

I didn't like that.

I was like, well, I don't.

I said something.

I said, whatever I said, because she asked me out in front of.

Asked me in front of the class, but I was like, I don't.

I didn't really feel like I could, you know, touch on that.

But other than that, all my professor, all my teachers were great for me.

I just wish that people would be more direct.

Like, people asking me about, oh, why don't you have your hair?

But they never say it like that.

Or, like, what's with the scar?

Again, they don't say like that, but they was always, like, they would tiptoe around it until I was like, yeah, let's have, like, just.

Let's just have a conversation.

Like, if you're curious.

Just ask.

Like, I've told the story a million times.

I'll tell the story a million more times.

I have it.

You know, I can tell you to.

Post it on your head.

That's like bullet points of what?

Cause you're so, it's like, literally a rehearse.

Like, this is my story.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And even, like, people would be like, oh, I didn't want to assume anything, but, like, I, like, I thought this or that, and I was like, well, just ask.

Like, you don't have to assume.

Just ask, why are you bald?

And I say, ah, cancer, you know, is it coming back?

No, it's all right, you know, but, oh, one thing I did really like our high school.

I think, like, many had a no hats policy in school, and so, well, it was my girlfriend that really did it, but she made me a hat pass because I had a hat pass.

Like, I talked to the assistant principal, the principal, and he was like, yeah, you can wear hats.

It's all good, but I would still get professional and, like, take your hat off.

You know, you're not allowed to wear hats.

So my girlfriend made a thing that said hat pass, and she got the principal to sign it, signed b Rob.

Like, he signed it great, because, I don't know, it was just, it was nice.

And he, that he actually signed it, you know, then I had more of a connection with him, and I talked to him a lot because of that.

So that kind of support was great.

But, like, again, I think what you said, corinne, about, like, there doesn't necessarily have to be a conversation, but, like, I would have liked to not have to argue about, I'm allowed to wear my hat, you know, but it's whatever.

I would take it off, walk down the hallway, put it back on.

It's easier than having a conversation.

I had a rough time personally with my professors.

The college experience, especially in a really, really large college like Penn State, was not particularly welcoming.

The professors did not have a personal, like, connection with me most of the time.

Most of the time, they did not particularly care about my excuses, excuses.

Heavy, heavy quotations.

You can't see it, but heavy quotations.

And, yeah, it was really, really rough.

Like, my other classmates, they didn't necessarily know.

I didnt want to have to explain to myself, to every single classmate that I was never going to see again because college, every single semester is different.

But, yeah, I really didnt have that great of an experience with my professors in college, and I was quite relieved to graduate and be out of that because it was.

It was rough.

It's the place to say.

Yeah, I feel like, I mean, I was in remission when I had gone to college, but I remember, like, one of my annual checkups where you do all.

It's like your whole day, where shebang, where you have your pft, you have your echoes, you have your blood work, you have your chest x ray, you have, like, your whole.

You're there from the morning until at night.

And I remember I had reached out to my one professor just being like, listen, this is my annual oncology appointment.

Like, I will not be in class today.

I will get the lecture notes from a friend.

I just wanted to make you aware very much.

The response I got back was essentially like, this is college, and however you're choosing to do your journey is on YouTube.

I don't know if it's that there's just, like, this overwhelming because there's so many students and there are so many things to worry about where you're very much a number and not just, like, a person, but it's very easy to feel minimized and especially when, like, you're going through this big thing and still going through this big thing.

And I think it's really hard for people to understand that when they're trying to, like, do a million other things.

You know, I was lucky enough that because when I was, like I said, I got back into school.

I got.

I was in remission August, and I started school August.

So, you know, at first, it's every three months that you have to go, I was getting mris every three months, and I was getting mris every six months.

But, like, I remember freshman year just having, like, the pattern of talking to, emailing teachers and saying, hey, I'm not going to be in class on this day.

Hey, I'm not going to be in class on this day.

And it kind of felt like I missed a lot of class, but I don't think I really did.

But I just remember, like, thinking about having to think about catching up with work.

And I'm glad that it was, like, high school work because I can't imagine trying to catch up on college stuff.

Like, even right now, I'm an RA and I run the Penn College benefiting Thawne club, and I'm a student and I already feel like I don't have enough time.

And if I had to miss, you know, multiple classes a semester in addition to what I already do just cause of life, I'd certainly be a lot more stressed than I am now.

Not to say I'm not stressed.

Now what?

Getting diagnosed in the middle of college definitely changed my career path.

Getting diagnosed earlier in life, how did that change your guys view of the future?

Did it change your career path or educational path?

For me, I very much so.

Like I said, I was a junior in college, which is where you're thinking about.

I remember three or four months prior, I was taking my SAts, and I was, you know, prom dress shopping, and thinking about where did I want to really consider schools to apply for.

Because, like, your junior year, everyone says it's the year that matters the most.

And that was another thing when I got sick, is like, I don't want to mess up my junior year.

I don't want this to put me back on what I want to do.

And I changed my career path three different times.

Like, I was dead set prior to getting diagnosed.

Like, first I wanted to be, like, a neurologist because I loved the brain, and then I wanted to be a lawyer.

And when I.

And then I was like, do I want to do nursing?

And at first I was like, no, because I don't wanna feel like I have to give back.

If I'm gonna do this, I wanna do it because it's in my heart.

So I went to college, majored in political science first, and then found out that there's, like, more people in law school than there are lawyers who are very successful.

And I didn't like the stats, and just.

I put myself in a situation where if I had to defend something that was against my morals, and that bothered me.

So then I changed to forensic chemistry because I was like, I love CSI, and I love all that stuff, so maybe I'll do that.

And then, at the time, Westchester had lost its accreditation.

And then I also just didn't know if that's the kind of work I wanted to do my whole life.

So then it changed again to cellular molecular biology, because I was like, I want to do cancer research.

That's how I'll give back.

And I remember my senior year being in lab, and here I was by myself, talking to these petri dishes, and I was like, I need human interaction.

And when I would go to my checkups, there's a very profound moment.

There was a little girl in the waiting room, and we were playing, and she was talking to me.

And the mom was like, you should feel very honored because she doesn't talk to anyone but us and her doctor.

And I very much always felt a pullback towards that.

Oncology has always been a passionate force in my life and something that I've always wanted to do.

And I knew at that moment that I was kidding myself.

But at that point in college, it was like, do I drop out and repeat my potential four years to do nursing?

Do I drop out and do an associate's program and then still have to go back for my bachelor's?

Or do I finish out and do an accelerated degree program?

Which is what I did.

So I graduated with my bachelor's in cellular molecular bio, and then the next year went to Wilkes University for my bachelor's in nursing.

And then actually, two days ago, I took my last final for my acute care pediatric nurse practitioner.

Yeah, so just boards left, and then that's kind of like the end piece of my.

Not end piece, but working with pediatric oncology patients and survivorship and transplant, everything, that's, like, my heart and soul, like, on call, like, my career path is more than just a force professionally.

It's really who I am as a person.

That's very cool.

Like I said, I was 13.

I had just turned 13, too.

My cancer diagnosis was in.

I guess it would have been June of 2016, and I had just turned 13 in March of 2016.

So I didn't really know what I wanted to do, like, at all.

And I don't even know.

I kind of just went with.

I kind of rolled kind of how I went.

Like, I dealt with the cancer.

I just, like, rolled with whatever was happening.

I just kind of rolled with whatever I kind of went with.

And so that's how I ended up in aviation maintenance.

Like I said earlier, I want to be a pilot, but yesterday, I didn't like that.

I had had cancer five years ago when I tried to be a pilot or when I was trying to take lessons, but that was five years ago.

We're going to work on that.

But I definitely always kind of wanted to give back to the people that supported me.

So that's why I got involved with Penn College's Thawne, and that's why I've, you know, I've continued to.

I've been a part of Thawne every single year of college, and, you know, I wasn't a part of Thawne as much in high school, even though Thawne at our high school was massive.

I just think I hadn't.

I wasn't at that point yet.

I wasn't ready to do that.

But I regret not being part of it now because it.

I just would have.

I think I would have liked it a lot.

Even though high school.

Me probably would have thought about, I don't want to join something.

I don't want to do something.

I want to, you know, I just want to read.

I just want to watch YouTube, you know.

But for giving back, that's why I wanted.

Worked for Penn State, Hershey's medical helicopters.

That's why I'm working on those.

You know, I want to.

It's a way I can give back while also, you know, working with my hands and working with aircraft, which are two things that I love.

Right.

That's why.

That's where.

That's how cancer led me to be where I'm at now.

For anybody listening, that is not in the Pennsylvania area.

Thawne is a gigantic fundraiser at Penn State.

It is a 46 hours, no sleeping, no sitting dance marathon that benefits the four diamonds fund.

That is the.

The thing that funds Penn State Hershey, that allows people like Nathan and Karin and their families to not have to pay for treatment, which is incredible and fabulously local.

High schools and middle schools and other schools also do mini thons.

So very cool.

And I danced.

I danced two years ago.

There you go.

It was a lot of fun.

It was terrible.

It was a lot of fun.

It was so rough, but I loved it.

I was part of the dancer relations, which is one of, like, the support people's.

A few years, and it was a witness, a Santa witness.

I wore a hole through my vans, but only a left foot, right foot was.

It was worn, but it didn't have a hole in it.

I favor my left foot when I walk, but it was so much fun.

I want to do it.

If you ever want to tune in, there's a live stream every.

Every, like, second or third week of February.

Very cool.

Yeah, it's the weekend this year.

It's the.

I think it's the 17th, the 19th, but don't call me on that.

But I'll be there.

I'll be there.

As for me and how, like, being diagnosed changed my career path, so I got to Penn State.

I was on main campus, and I was initially enrolled in chemical engineering.

And I'm not going to lie, it was super inconvenient to be diagnosed with cancer, but it did give me an out because I got into chemical engineering and I realized I hated it.

I got into calculus, and I was like, oh, I don't.

I don't want to do this.

I don't want to do this.

And then I got diagnosed and I was like, this does give me a chance to take a semester off and kind of reassess my options.

And I was like, that maybe God was giving me an out.

So in that semester off, when I was doing treatment back home, I was like, what do I want to do?

Because I do want to go back to school.

And I probably went back a little bit too early.

I was, like, thinking about what I wanted to do, and I was like, I do like science, but I don't think I want to be locked up in a lab all day, like Korean.

I was like, I like talking to people.

And also a big part of my treatment was like, I had to do this iodine therapy, and I had to do this insane diet for weeks and weeks at a time where I couldn't eat anything.

Basically.

It was wild.

And so I had to really, really focus on what I was able to eat.

Yeah.

And so I was like, hmm, that could be fun.

Maybe I could go back and, like, be like, a registered dietitian.

And so then I went back and did that, and I was like, oh, this is fun.

I get to combine talking to people and science, and I get to do, like, biochemistry and stuff like that.

So cancer did definitely change my career path, and it gave me an out.

I used to.

It sounds awful.

It's another bad cancer joke.

When I was in calculus in college.

God, if there's anything that I hate more, it is calculus.

Math has never been my strong suit.

Now I can do, like, med math, like nursing math.

All day, every day, the calculus.

And, like, when we start adding letters into it, I used to.

I used to joke and be like, I think I would rather have my worst week of chemo then do calculus.

I have the.

I've made the joke.

In aviation, you work with.

It's just how it is.

You work with a lot of chemicals that are really bad for you.

And I always say, well, I had cancer once.

I can't.

Chicken pox.

When you had wrapped this up before, Nathan, about how the FAA was like, oh, well, you had cancer, so we're not going to let you fly.

Have you guys encountered anything else?

Obviously, like, yes, we're not allowed to donate blood.

And, like.

All the time.

Yeah, maybe it's a different.

When this was back when cancer.

Yeah, I think.

Cause I had blood cancer that was.

Hodgkin's is considered a blood cancer.

But, like, there's certain things where it's like, no, you can't do this.

Like, have you guys encountered anything, like you just said with, like, the FAA, like, have you encountered anything where it's like, well, you had cancer?

So sorry, this is hard now.

There was a big push for, like, the bone marrow registry, and I was very excited to, like, get all of my family and friends signed up for that.

And because I had had the radiation done, they were like, hard pass.

Get out of here.

I actually, prior to getting sick, like, so my dad, like, he's an air force veteran.

And, like, very much just, like, considering college and the cost of everything, like, I very much was considering doing just, like, air force reserve.

And because I had gotten sick going into my senior year, it was a hard.

No, it was a hard.

We're not gonna.

We're not gonna do that.

And I was like, okay, yeah.

I think the only thing that I've run into, because every time I go to Denny blood, they say, it's a question, have you had cancer?

And then I have to say, yes.

And then I have to have the discussion every single time, yes, I had this cancer.

But they didn't care last time I donated blood, and they didn't care the 16 times before.

However, I think the only thing I've run into is the FAA saying, no, no pilot.

One of the things about me is that, like, I can't tell.

I am pretty much constantly tired.

Oh, yeah.

And I'm like, is this just a forever thing?

And my boyfriend used to make fun of me.

He was like, how can you sleep 13 hours a night?

And then a few years back, he got hurt pretty bad.

And he was like, I would just sleep and sleep and sleep.

And then he was like, I realize that youre missing an organ.

Youre injured for the rest of your life, essentially.

And hes like, your body is tired forever.

And thats the way that he rationalized it.

But I was like, am I just forever tired?

Is this just a lifelong thing?

I hope not.

I dont know.

Sometimes I feel like that, but also sometimes not.

You know, like, so far this summer or this semester, I felt very tired, like, every day.

But I have a feeling that it's more likely that I am stressing out too much about, like, work and that kind of stuff.

So we'll see.

We'll see if over the weekends I improve, and then it'll just be, I need to start doing a better work life balance.

I actually looked up at one point because, let's be honest, you're in college.

You're very much trying.

It's this newfound independence of balancing for me.

In college, I was a waitress, bartender as my job on top of school, so I would be working sometimes till two in the morning or maybe I was not working and I was hanging out with friends late, and then I had class.

So I think every.

If you're.

I think I feel like even if you're not in college, I feel like everyone goes through a period where their sleep schedule gets really messed up in, like, your early twenties.

Yeah.

And so after that, when I had gotten my first job at chop as a nurse and I was working night shifts, like, I felt like night shift just worked so much better for, like, my life, essentially.

And.

But then I just was hitting this wall of perpetual, perpetual exhaustion, and then I would, like, go through awful periods of insomnia.

And I actually looked it up and found that if you underwent chemotherapy, you're actually at this, or, like, essentially, like, anything that has impacted your potential sleep cycles.

Like, even with, like, sammy, like, you and your thyroid.

It's called hibernation, insomnia.

And essentially what it is is that, like, your body after a traumatic event or after, like, it's exposed to certain, like, toxins, your sleep, your circadian rhythm essentially gets, like, altered.

So then you.

You're.

You could be so tired and you could be so exhausted that you want to sleep and then you can't.

And then all of a sudden you have periods where, like, you know that you should be awake, but you can just sleep and there's no rhyme or reason.

I had a period of just insane insomnia towards the end of junior year of college.

And that also because I was in the clear, essentially, I was still in monitoring for treatment, but I didn't sleep for days.

And even when I did sleep, it was just for a few hours at a time.

And I was like, this is insane.

I'm in the clear now.

I should be fine.

I'm just like, but I'd go and get some sleeping medication and figure all of that out.

But that also threw a wrench in my academic career.

So.

Interesting that.

Yeah, that explains a lot.

Yeah.

My sleep schedule is definitely wacky because as an RA, we have to be on duty certain nights.

So every Monday I'm on duty from 08:00 p.m.

to midnight.

And then, like, this week is especially bad because I'm on duty on Friday and Saturday.

And on Friday and Saturday it's from 08:00 p.m.

to 02:00 a.m.

so.

And I also have eight.

I have class at eight or 830 Monday through Thursday.

So depending on.

And sometimes I have duty on Thursdays too.

So, like, it's all jumbled, it's not regular and I don't know.

So far I'm handling it, but we'll see how it's like in six weeks or halfway through the semester.

But I've never had issues getting up in the morning.

Like generally if my alarm goes off, I just get out of bed.

I sometimes have trouble going to sleep but I just, I don't know.

I've been blessed by being able to just get out of bed.

What additional challenges did cancer add to your school experience?

I feel like aside from just going through it as a junior 16 year old in high school, I think it just was the challenge of like now dealing with the aspect of this thought of trying to thrive and survive.

And as a 16 year old, I don't think that's something you really think of.

Like, I think that you're very much, I don't want to use the word skating by because that's not fair to say, but you're going through the motions of you're in high school, you're going through high school, you're about to embark on this journey post high school, whatever it is that you choose to.

And for me during that time, it was this challenge of I was just figuring out like who the hell I was and now I'm having to figure out who I am on top of coping with this big life event that I've never had to cope with something of its magnitude.

And so I think it just was the challenge of really, like how many people at 16 can say they're honing in on who they are as a person?

You are never the same person at any two points in your life, but to have to really sit down and have to ground yourself because if you don't, you don't know what the future holds.

I think that was a very big challenge to have to deal with.

Thats hard to say.

I dont know if it really did and im sure if my mom was on shed say, oh, of course it did.

This is how it did.

What?

I dont know.

From an insider looking out, I think I had for the most part a really normal, average high school experience and for the most part also like people didn't really like when I was like, oh yeah, I had cancer, people would be like, oh, wow, like they weren't, it wasn't like it was a big thing.

I mean it was a big thing, of course, but I always was just like, yeah, it was cancer, it was all right.

I wouldn't recommend it, but like it was just five out of ten.

It was.

And it just never I don't know.

I feel like I wasn't affected as much as I probably was.

Even, like, people asking, like, well, how did that feel?

I was like.

Like, people say, how did it feel when you were told?

And I was like, I just kind of was like, okay, well, what are we going to do now?

So I was just saying, I think it's a really hard thing for people.

Like, in the moment, you're just going through the motions.

Like, you're just, like, dealing with this news and you're trying to get through it.

And I don't think people necessarily in the moment realize that, like, you yourself may not have actually come to terms with what that feeling was or is because you literally are just.

You're going through it.

Yeah.

You have a bear coming at you.

You're not thinking about the fact that, oh, I have to tell somebody that a bear attacked me.

You're thinking about the fact that I have to run from a bear.

Yeah.

And along that lines, I would get the line like, oh, you're such a fighter.

You're so strong.

And I'd be like, I was a 13 year old kid sitting in the hospital bed watching YouTube and reading books, and I, you know, eating and, like, that's all I did.

And watching Netflix.

I didn't fight.

I wasn't strong.

I just said, okay, what did the doctor tell me to do?

All right, I'm going to do what the doctor says.

Except for drinking water when I had esophagitis or, I don't know, the radiation was on the back of my head and then down my spine, so I had a racing stripe.

You know, obviously, there's the racing stripe, which is really just awful sunburn, but it was also in my throat.

So, like, for a week and a half, I just.

I couldn't swallow.

Like, I was spitting enough spittoon that I carried around because I heard too much as follow.

And when they said, you have to drink water, I was like, no one good.

But other than that, it's just like, I just followed what the doctor said.

So I never had an inpatient experience for chemo.

Like, I was never inpatient getting chemo.

And from being a hemog nurse and asking to be mp, I think that kids.

I don't want to say I'm going to use the term kids loosely, because I think it's hard when you're a teenager to be a kid, to be called a kid, even though you're still a kid.

I think when you go through something, you're just like, okay.

You have.

You essentially have to do this.

You know what I mean?

Like, you're.

You're doing it because this is what grown ups are telling you, but this is also because you have to do this in order to get better.

And I think that even from a.

Even from, like, a healthcare standpoint, like, a nurse, a healthcare provider standpoint, there are people who get told that, and they immediately let their child just, like, regress and be, like, not deal with it in a way that they're still themselves and then they're not.

It's not, like, conducive to their treatment.

You know what I mean?

And that's hard for, I think people hear.

But in this flip end, like you said, like, you don't feel like you were being strong and brave because you were sitting there and just doing what you normally would do with a kid.

But I think that, like, bravery and your armor and the.

What you put up doesn't necessarily have to be, like, exploited in this big fashion, where it's, like, you're marketing the fact that you were brave and everything, I think that the fact that you were doing it is just a testament to your bravery.

I like to think of it as I picked the really short straw out of the bunch.

And the fact that I kept that short straw and made it through that short straw.

Yeah, I didn't.

I didn't want the short straw, but I continued with the short straw.

Maybe I deserve a little bit of respect, but I didn't choose it necessarily.

I didn't want it.

Another thing, I don't know if I already mentioned it, but when I was in the children's hospital, I was the oldest person there by a decent amount, and I was 13.

There were two other people that were my age.

The other one, the one, he was there before I was, and he was still there after.

And there were kids that were this tall, this tall, this tall.

They were there before me.

They were there after me.

So I always kind of felt I got, like I said, I got lucky.

So I was always kind of.

Not that you can compare cancer stories.

I mean, you can, but you can't.

Everyone has it differently.

But I was always like, well, it could be worse.

So I'm happy with what I got.

I feel like I'm doing good.

I was kind of the opposite.

I was diagnosed at 18 in six months.

So I was the youngest person at the adult hospital.

Just consistently, at every single treatment center, they were like, what are you doing here?

I was like, technically, I am an adult.

Final question.

What were your favorite parts of school before and after treatment.

I had to pick before I got sick.

My favorite part was just navigating the essentially, like, getting into your groove of high school.

Like, I felt like as a junior, you're at the point where you're, like, not just the baby freshman that has no idea what they're doing and you're about to go into your senior year and potentially good, and then whatever you choose to do after your senior year.

So I was just really excited to be, like, in the thick of being so close to the end, you know?

And, like, I just got my permit, so I was learning how to drive, and it was my first prom, and I was just looking forward to all the things that, like, 16 year olds look forward to.

And then I would say if I had to pick my favorite thing after treatment, honestly, I don't know if I've ever, like, actually said this out loud or thought about it, but it was like, the solace I found in either just sitting in the guidance counselor's office during, like, which my guidance counselor misses Lobbinstein.

Like, she was absolutely amazing and always there and, like, as well.

And there were time periods where in between classes I just would, like, go in there for a hot minute to decompress, or I would go to the library and just not want to be at lunch or not want to be around people.

And that's sad to say, but I felt like I was going through this post.

I don't want to say post chemo depression, but just this post chemo figuring out my life.

I just went through this.

This crazy thing, and now I'm supposed to just pick up the pieces and be a 17 year old in high school.

Like, it didn't happen.

And I'm supposed to, like, be.

I'm writing these college essays, and, like, I always say that having had cancer is, like, the tell us a fun fact about yourself or, like, tell us an experience.

But I felt guilty playing, like, the cancer card.

And so it was a very.

It was in moments where, like, I I didn't have to be around the noise of trying to fit in.

That then became my favorite think that.

My favorite part of school before cancer.

Not that it didn't happen after, but after I had cancer, most of the relationships that I had in school, kind of the way I had school, relationships kind of changed.

Like, before I had cancer, I would hang out with my buddies, like, a lot and, like, we would.

And, like, the group, like, not just, like, my group of core, like, four friends, but, like, we would all, as a, like, big groups would hang out a lot, and I loved that.

And, like, I'd have.

We'd have sleepovers all the time.

Um, my one friend was like, you're my second son, or you're my third son.

You're here so often.

Um, but after kind of.

Most of my relationships were more like, in school, I didn't hang out with people outside of school as much.

In a way.

There was just a difference.

And I definitely enjoyed the.

How I hung out with my friends beforehand more.

Not to say that I didn't after, but after, I don't know.

There was definitely a time in my freshman year where, honestly, yeah, I'm the cancer kid.

I had cancer.

That's me.

Which, looking back, I'm like, well, that's kind of cringy being like, I made it my whole personality for a year, and I'm sure I had fun.

I did have fun, like, being like the cancer kid, but looking back, I'd probably do it again if I was 14.

But looking back, as a 21 year old, I'm like, you know what?

It's hard to say.

I definitely enjoyed the.

I definitely enjoyed my high school mini thon.

When I finally got involved with it, that was really great and really fulfilling, and I really liked that.

And I was upset that I had, as a younger kid, been like, I don't want to do that.

That sounds lame.

I wish that future me present me could go back and be like, come on, man, just do it.

Like, it'll be fun, but you can't.

But I don't know.

I think Karina said something about maturing up, like, maturing faster.

I feel like I did because of cancer.

And then people were thinking, I'm like, would think I'm older.

And I think that's just when you, like, you said, when you have cancer at a younger age, you kind of just have to suck it up and grow up and be mature about it and, you know, it kind of.

I feel like I kind of differentiated myself from my peers subconsciously in some ways, even still, I mean, I'm sure you guys can attest to in real life.

You're always dealing with people.

You're always going to deal with someone that kind of never left the middle school idea of how things should be working.

There's still an entire group of.

I tell this to everyone, even my first grade niece today.

She called and said that some girl was laughing at her because she rolled up her pants and they were laughing at her bug weights on her legs.

And I was just like, sweetie, sometimes people are just not nice.

And unfortunately, they're never.

That grows.

It goes all the way through adulthood.

Like, I wish, like, we're 32 years old.

You're still, like, you're still holding grudges or you're still being so negative about things that happened now 1415 years ago, and it's like, you have children, you have all these beautiful things in your life, and then the fact that you're choosing to focus energy on the disdain that you have for another human being, like, what is that teaching your children?

Like, what is that doing for you as a person?

And it's sad.

So sad.

And I, you know, I don't think that a lot of people can put into perspective what it's like to be on the other side of that.

And that's why I'm.

Quotes.

I'm glad I had cancer.

Big quotes there.

But, you know, I definitely.

I feel changed my perspective on life and people in a good way.

Um, you know, it's so easy to.

Well, I can't say that there are so many people that kind of act like that, where it's like they never had that experience to see it from the other side, and then they can never connect that later in life.

And so I'm grateful that I was able to have that experience, and I feel like I'm a better person because of that.

But don't recommend having cancer.

I told my friends in college that, like, I'm not going to play into the trope of, like, the all knowing, the wisest, like, cancer survivor.

Like, that's not me.

I'm not the trope, but this has allowed me to see through a little bit more of the b's of life.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Like, I think it is so humbling, and it does provide you with not even just different perspective.

It's a different way to think.

It's a different way to live.

It's a different way on how you plan doing things.

And I don't wish that anyone had cancer by any means at all, but I wish that people who were so quick to judge are so quick to.

To say a mean comment or so quick to essentially, like, minimize the experiences that someone else went through.

If they were going through it, how would they feel?

How would that.

If it was someone that they loved or if it was their own child or if it was themselves, like, how would that alter their perspective?

And I think that kind of tying into our, like, our talk today, it's like while everyone is sitting there and getting excited, about going back to school and, like, what book bag are they gonna have?

Or what's your first day of school outfit?

Like, we were thinking, like, all right, am I gonna wear a bandana or rock my bald head today?

Like, am I going to bring the Zofran in case I get nauseous during class?

Or, like, am I gonna be okay without emotional support?

Water bottle.

It's a completely different, different just track.

It's good.

I'm grateful that I had my experience because it kind of gives me the perspective, you know, it helps me think about, like, does it really matter what Jimmy down the street thinks about my.

My braces on my shoes?

Like, does it really matter?

No.

So why am I going to worry about it?

And that goes on in the rest of your life?

Who cares if you look silly walking down the street?

If you're having fun, have fun.

I think that having this experience has allowed me to be more myself and not worry about what other people think.

Thank you for listening to life on pause, supported by four diamonds.

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